http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#03950e51-1186-4fc9-bc5f-96d5daecda77 I live in Austin Tx. I started training in the R22 about ten years ago and stopped after about 30 hours for personal reasons. I'm about to take my check ride after restarting my training back in July of last year. I fly when I want and how long I want. And pay as I go. My instructors name is Don Arsenault. His number is 512-699-2642. Call him. He will finish your training on your time and your budget. I trust him with my life and you will too! Get back in the seat and live your dream. If you don't, five years from now you're still going to be bitter and still not flying. Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:14:52 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#03950e51-1186-4fc9-bc5f-96d5daecda77 Dave 2008-02-10T16:14:52Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#9e7ae5e1-c0fa-40bd-b600-5e97434c35cd Steven C. Sayler represents 20 plaintiffs in an action against Silver State. It is not a class action, and they may be adding some additional plaintiffs. Goode, Hemme, Peterson & Sayler 6256 Greenwich Dr., Suite 500 San Diego, CA 92122 T 858-587-3555 F 858-587-3545 www.sandiegoattorney.com This is only for those who secured the loans through Keybank. I am interested in joining an action for those who have loans through Student Loan Xpress c/o AES. I have been unsuccessful in securing an attorney, the retainer fee for the above is only $2,500 per plaintiff. Here is text copied from the old blog site, I assume when the domain name went up for renewal Jerry had it tagged and bought it because it now points to his website.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Silver State Truth Where the TRUTH about Silver State Helicopters comes out!!! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in Hey guys The Silver State Truth Forum Index -> Negative View previous topic :: View next topic Author Message Guest Posted: Jan 13, 2007 11:57 Post subject: Hey guys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You folks lost money because you used poor judgment. Deal with it and move on, you're not going to get your money back and nobody reads this piss ant board. Losers. Back to top ozfst34 Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 10 Location: Sacramento, CA Posted: Jan 13, 2007 14:04 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some people must put in there two cents, with no thought or substance. Or and what a surprise it was a guest!!! Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 13, 2007 14:42 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you've got a grievance against Silver State why don't you take it to court? Others have. Why maintain this tacky little bitch session, taking pot-shots at the guy? Back to top shrpshter Moderator Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152 Posted: Jan 13, 2007 15:46 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous wrote: If you've got a grievance against Silver State why don't you take it to court? Others have. Why maintain this tacky little bitch session, taking pot-shots at the guy? Most people cant afford an attorney. Even if they could, the court system is not always the best venue to help people out and initiate change for the better. Jerry, on the other hand, resorts ONLY to courts. He refuses any and all cooperation with his critics prior to filing lawsuits. Everyone who has sued Jerry and SSH have gone through great troubles to cooperate with the two prior to filing the suits. Jerry has repeatedly filed surprise lawsuits against critics before seeking alternative remedies. If that doesnt objectively define "pot-shot" then I dont know what does. If you believe the problems are only the fault of the students, then provide your reason based on fact, personal experience, or substantiated and respectful logic. As for taking "pot-shots" at the guy, you must understand that he's brought all this on himself. Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 14, 2007 07:38 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shrpshter wrote: If you believe the problems are only the fault of the students, then provide your reason based on fact, personal experience, or substantiated and respectful logic. They signed a contract and loan agreement which laid out all of the rights and responsibilities of each party. Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 14, 2007 13:50 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shrpshter wrote: Most people cant afford an attorney. Even if they could, the court system is not always the best venue to help people out and initiate change for the better. Jerry, on the other hand, resorts ONLY to courts. He refuses any and all cooperation with his critics prior to filing lawsuits. Everyone who has sued Jerry and SSH have gone through great troubles to cooperate with the two prior to filing the suits. You could be right, about the lawsuit route. The Califonia students who are suing paid $2,500 each to an attorney to pursue that case (according to a post on another thread), again paid in advance, and who knows if that case will go anywhere. Or when. The Arizona students' case doesn't even go to trial until next year. Probably a better idea just to read the contract and loan agreements because once they sign, and their loan money is advanced to SSH, they have pretty much no more control of the relationship. Back to top shrpshter Moderator Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152 Posted: Jan 14, 2007 15:44 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anonymous wrote: They signed a contract and loan agreement which laid out all of the rights and responsibilities of each party. SSH did not perform on the contract terms. Additionally, according to the lawsuits, the contract terms are unconscionable, therefore created under ill-will and ultimately is unenforceable due to an apparent attempt to defraud its customers. Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 14, 2007 19:32 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shrpshter wrote: SSH did not perform on the contract terms. Additionally, according to the lawsuits, the contract terms are unconscionable, therefore created under ill-will and ultimately is unenforceable due to an apparent attempt to defraud its customers. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly...according to the complaints; neither of which is anywhere near being decided in a court. Back to top shrpshter Moderator Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152 Posted: Jan 15, 2007 13:40 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only reason we say "allegedly" is to cover our ass in conseration of sue-happy Jerry. We all know the facts, rumors, half-thruths, and speculations; them being decided in court has little relevance at this point because there can be little argument that SSH and Jerry are not shady or have not violated the deceptive trade practices act on many occassions. Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 16, 2007 20:25 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the Arizona lawsuit: COUNT I: CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT 48. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 49. At the time Defendants marketed and opened their training program in Arizona, it was reasonably apparent to them that they did not have adequate aircraft or other resources (qualified instructors, training materials and facilities) available to fulfill the promises they made to their students. 50. At the time they marketed and opened their training program in Arizona, Defendants knew that it would not be possible for students to graduate the program within 12 months of their start date, or even within 18 months, when the contract for training services would terminate. 51. When they marketed and opened their training program in , Glendale, and Tucson, Arizona, Defendants knew well that they could not and, would not hire nearly all of their graduates as pilots. 52. When Defendants marketed and opened their program, they knew that they would not have sufficient aircraft available for student use in either Mesa, Glendale or Tucson, Arizona as comparable to the aircraft that they had presented during the marketing seminars. 53. Defendants misrepresented the manner in which they would provide educational services and the aircraft which would be made available to students. 54. Defendants misrepresented through statements, tangible presentation of equipment, and photographs, the nature and efficacy of their courses, training devices and equipment. 55. Defendants misrepresented the role of the school in providing or arranging for employment following completion of student training. 56. Defendants misrepresented the available employment opportunities for students following graduation. 57. Despite these misrepresentations, and their inability to fulfill representations made to students, Defendants arranged for and accepted funds from a financing program which required the lender, Key Bank, to make advances to SILVER STATE far in excess of the actual training fees earned. 58. Even after it became apparent that Defendants' equipment was wholly inadequate, and that it would be unable to meet the time frame for training. Defendants continued to require and accept draws from the lending institution. 59. Upon information and belief, SILVER STATE has received in excess of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) of student funds, while it has provided services having a value that is a fraction of the funds received. 60. Upon information and belief, Defendant AIROLA has personally benefitted from its misrepresentations and misstatements in that he has personally achieved substantial financial gain. 61. Defendants have violated the Arizona Consumer Protection Act, Code §A.R.S. § 44-1521 through 44-1534, et seq. which prohibits unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are unlawful pursuant to the laws of the state of Arizona and the Consumer Protection Act. A.R.S. § 44-1521 through 44-1534 et. seq. 62. As a result of Defendants' deceptive acts, Plaintiffs have suffered damages including, but not limited to, loss of the funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income, and such other damages as a jury may deem appropriate. 63. Pursuant to the Arizona Consumer Protection Act, Plaintiffs are entitled to recover treble damages and their attorneys' fees and costs. COUNT II: BREACH OF CONTRACT 64. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 65. The Training Agreement contains an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, requiring SILVER STATE to fulfill the contract and in so doing to act in good faith. 66. The Training Agreement expressly requires SILVER STATE to render training services adequate to allow a student to obtain a commercial pilot certificate (rotorcraft) a certified flight instructor certificate (rotorcraft), external load proficiency, an instrument rating, and a turbine transition. 67. The Training Agreement terminates after 18 months, thus requiring SILVER STATE to provide services and equipment sufficient to allow a student to complete the aforementioned certifications and training within an 18 month period. 68. The training actually provided by SILVER STATE and the aircraft provided by SILVER STATE were wholly inadequate to allow a student to complete the program within the twelve (12) month period represented as "typical" for its students, or even within the eighteen (18) month period constituting the end of the Training Agreement. 69. In its failure to provide adequate training services, and in its failure to provide adequate equipment, SILVER STATE breached the terms of its Training Agreement. 70. As a result of SILVER STATE's breach of contract, Plaintiffs have suffered damages, including, but not limited to, the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income, and such other damages as a jury may deem appropriate. 71. Defendants breached the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, not only in their knowing failure to provide adequate educational services and equipment, but in the misrepresentations they made to induce students to enter and continue in the program. COUNT III: FRAUD 72. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 73. The Defendants made numerous false and material misrepresentations concerning the services their Arizona helicopter flight training programs would offer. At the time these representations were made SILVER STATE did not have either the aircraft, instructors, materials or facilities to provide the promised training, nor did SILVER STATE have the capacity or even the intent to acquire these resources prior to accepting payment from prospective students or prior to the time the training was promised to begin. 74. Both SILVER STATE and AIROLA knew their representations were false and, due to the significance of the representations and their absolute control of the business of SILVER STATE, they could not be ignorant of the fact that their representations were true. In fact, Defendants had no reasonable expectation that they could fulfill the promises made to students in light of the inadequate resources. 75. Defendants clearly intended that Plaintiffs and others would rely upon their false representations. Given the totality of the statements made by Defendant AIROLA and others under his direct control, the only possible purpose for their representations was to cause Plaintiffs and others to rely thereon and to enter into flight training contracts that Defendants knew were impossible to fulfill. 76. Plaintiffs were unaware of the falsity of the representations made and relied upon those representations. All of Plaintiff’s herein were persons of at least average ability and intelligence. The location of Defendant’s presentation in a large aviation facility, the presence of multiple and varied model helicopters, and the sophistication of the sales materials, would have led anyone interested in such helicopter flight training to rely on Defendant’s to provide the services promised and believe that Defendant’s had the capacity to provide the services they promised. 77. In reliance on the representations of Defendants, Plaintiffs enrolled as students in the helicopter flight training program offered by SILVER STATE and entered a contractual agreement under which they would pay on average fifty-five thousand, nine hundred and fifty dollars ($55,950) to SILVER STATE. 78. As a result of Defendant’s false and fraudulent representations, Defendant SILVER STATE obtained approximately five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) in student funds from Plaintiffs. Defendant SILVER STATE failed to provide the promised helicopter flight training program and caused Plaintiff’s the loss of most of the value of the funds they paid to Defendant SILVER STATE. 79. As a result of the fraud committed by Defendants SILVER STATE and AIROLA, the Plaintiffs have been damaged. The damages include, but are not limited to, the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income. COUNT IV: FRAUD 80. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 81. Defendant AIROLA personally made numerous false and material misrepresentations concerning the services to be provided by SILVER STATE in its Arizona helicopter flight training programs. At the time that he made these representations SILVER STATE did not have either the aircraft, instructors, materials or facilities to provide the promised training, nor did SILVER STATE have the capacity or even the intent to acquire these resources prior to accepting payment from prospective students prior to the time the training was promised to begin. 82. AIROLA knew his representations were false and, due to the significance of the representations and his absolute control of the business of SILVER STATE, he could not be ignorant of the fact that his representations were not true. In fact, AIROLA had no reasonable expectation that SILVER STATE could fulfill the promises made to students in light of the inadequate resources available. 83. AIROLA clearly intended that Plaintiffs and others would rely upon his false representations. Given the totality of the statements made by AIROLA, and others under his direct control, the only possible purpose for their representations was to cause Plaintiffs and others to rely thereon and to enter into flight training contracts that AIROLA knew were impossible for SILVER STATE to fulfill. 84. Plaintiffs were unaware of the falsity of the representations made by AIROLA and relied on those representations. All of the Plaintiff’s herein were persons of at least average ability and intelligence. The location of AIROLA’s presentation in a large aviation facility, the presence of multiple and varied model helicopters, and the sophistication of the sales materials, would have led anyone interested in such helicopter flight training to rely of SILVER STATE to provide the services promised and to believe that SILVER STATE had the capacity to provide the services they promised. 85. In reliance on the representations of AIROLA, Plaintiffs enrolled as students in the helicopter flight training program offered by SILVER STATE and entering a contractual agreement under which they would pay, on average, fifty-five thousand, nine-hundred and fifty dollars ($55,950) to SILVER STATE; the Plaintiffs had a right to rely on the representations made to them. 86. As a result of AIROLA's false and fraudulent representations, SILVER STATE obtained approximately five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) in student funds from Plaintiffs. SILVER STATE subsequently failed to provide the promised helicopter flight training program and caused Plaintiff’s the loss of most of the value of the funds they paid to SILVER STATE. 87. As a result of the fraud committed by AIROLA, the Plaintiffs have been damaged. The damages include, but are not limited to, the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; the lost time value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expense on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income. 88. At all times described herein, AIROLA was the owner and chief operating officer of SILVER STATE, and not only did he know of the inability of SILVER STATE to fulfill its contractual obligations to Plaintiffs. He was in fact responsible for all of the helicopter training program deficiencies. 89. The failure of SILVER STATE to meet its contractual obligations to its students could only be a deliberate scheme by AIROLA to use the SILVER STATE helicopter flight training program for his personal gain at the expense of the SILVER STATE students by deliberately failing to provide the needed flight training resources and by misrepresenting the costs involved in the program. COUNT V: CONSTRUCTIVE FRAUD 90. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 91. Defendants SILVER STATE and AIROLA had a duty to be truthful in the representations they made to prospective or actual students concerning the training program they would offer in Arizona. 92. Defendants in fact misrepresented aspects of the training program, and in so doing, breached the duty owed to the Plaintiffs and other students. 93. Their breach misled the Plaintiffs to their detriment and resulted in an advantage to AIROLA personally, and SILVER STATE. 94. Such breach resulted in damages to Plaintiffs, including, but not limited to, the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income, and such other damages as a jury may deem appropriate. COUNT VI: NEGLIGENCE 95. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 96. This count is alleged in the alternative to the counts above. By asserting this negligence cause, Plaintiffs in no way waive their rights to pursue the foregoing causes of action. 97. Defendants had a duty to design, develop and implement a training program that would allow students, in the exercise of reasonable diligence, to complete their training within the twelve (12) to eighteen (18) months as represented. 98. Defendants had a duty to design, develop and implement a training program capable of graduating all competent students within eighteen (18) months, the time period of the Training Agreement. 99. Defendants breached this duty by failing to design, develop and implement a training program capable of meeting the criteria set forth in their promotional and contractual materials. 100. As a result of Defendant’s breaches, Plaintiffs suffered damages including, but not limited to, the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in, or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income, and such other damages as a jury may deem appropriate. COUNT VII: NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION 101. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 102. Defendants made numerous representations as to material facts concerning their training program. 103. The representations they made were untrue. 104. Regardless of their actual belief, the Defendants made representations without any reasonable ground for believing them to be true. 105. The representations were made with the intent to induce the Plaintiffs and other students to rely upon them. 106. The Plaintiffs were unaware of the falsity of the representations and werejustified in relying on them. 107. As a result of the reliance, the Plaintiffs sustained damage including, but not limited to the loss of funds paid to SILVER STATE; lost time and value of the money paid to SILVER STATE; interest expensed on their student loans; delay in or inability to complete the helicopter training program resulting in lost income, and such other damages as a jury may deem appropriate. COUNT VIII: JOINT, VICARIOUS AND ALTER EGO LIABILITY 108. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 109. AIROLA and SILVER STATE have acted in a joint scheme to commit the torts and other wrongs alleged in this Complaint. 110. The limited liability company entity known as SILVER STATE HELICOPTERS, LLC, was used as a subterfuge to defeat public convenience, justify wrong or to perpetrate fraud and in fact was the alter-ego of Defendant AIROLA, and was used for AIROLA’s personal financial benefit. 111. AIROLA is individually liable for any of the wrongs alleged herein. 112. SILVER STATE is liable for any wrongs committed by AIROLA alleged herein. 113. AIROLA and SILVER STATE are each vicariously liable for the acts of the other. COUNT IX: EXEMPLARY DAMAGES 114. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 115. In their commission of the acts alleged herein, Defendants have acted with actual malice or committed actual fraud. 116. Plaintiffs are entitled to recover exemplary damages against the Defendants and each of them. COUNT X: MISTAKE 117. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 118. The consent of Plaintiffs to the Training Agreement was given by mistake or obtained by fraud on the part of the Defendants. 119. The consideration promised to the Plaintiffs substantially or materially failed. 120. Defendants are not entitled to enforce against the Plaintiffs any provisions which may be detrimental to Plaintiffs. Such provisions include, but are not necessarily limited to, any provisions purporting to allow the Defendants to retain the students’ loan proceeds or other funds, the choice of law provisions, and the arbitration provisions. COUNT XI: UNCONSCIONABILITY 121. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 122. Defendants’ conduct, acts, language, or silence amount to representation or a concealment of material facts. The falsity of these facts were known to Defendants at the time of their conduct, but not known to the Plaintiffs. 123. Defendants’ conduct was done with the intention or expectation that it would be relied upon by the Plaintiffs, or under circumstances that it was natural and probable that it would be so acted upon. 124. The conduct was in fact relied upon by the Plaintiffs and resulted in a change of their position for the worse. 125. Defendants are barred from relying on provisions of the Training Agreement unfavorable to the Plaintiffs, including, but not limited to, its provisions concerning retention of loans or other funds received, its choice of law provisions, or its arbitration provisions. COUNT XII: PUBLIC POLICY 126. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 127. The Training Agreement was entered between each of the Plaintiffs and SILVER STATE within the state of Arizona. 128. Training services to be provided by SILVER STATE were all intended to take place within the state of Arizona. 129. Defendants touted the economic opportunity they would bring to the city of Mesa, Glendale, and Tucson, Arizona in their marketing. 130. The state of Arizona has an interest in preventing enforcement of unconscionable, unlawful or otherwise inappropriate provisions contained within the Training Agreement. 131. The contract's provisions, including those governing retention of student funds, timing of "earning" fees for services, venue and arbitration are against the public policy of the state of Arizona. COUNT XIII: IMPOSSIBILITY 132. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 133. Due to Defendants' conduct, it became impossible for Defendants to perform the Training Agreement in the manner promised. 134. Due to Defendants' conduct, it became impossible for the Plaintiffs to fulfill their responsibilities under the contract. 135. Plaintiffs have no duty to perform a contract which is impossible for them to perform where they had no reason to foresee the impossibility at the time that they contracted. The contract is thus not enforceable against the Plaintiffs. COUNT XIV: CONSTRUCTIVE TRUST 136. All of the allegations in the preceding paragraphs are incorporated and restated herein by reference as if fully set forth herein. 137. Defendants received funds directly from the students lenders in excess of services performed or funds earned. 138. As such, it became Defendants' obligation to hold such funds in constructive trust for Plaintiffs. 139. Defendants had a fiduciary duty to properly handle and administer the funds received. 140. Defendants breached their fiduciary duties by arranging payment, and accepting such payment for funds in excess of training services actually performed. 141. Plaintiffs are entitled to have any funds received from them by Defendants placed in a separate trust account, and to require Defendants to account therefore. 142. Such funds should remain available during the pendency of this action. 143. Plaintiffs have also suffered damages by virtue of Defendants' breach of the constructive trust, including, but not limited to, those damages previously alleged in this complaint and any additional damages which may be identified at a later date. Back to top Guest Posted: Jan 16, 2007 22:51 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WOW what a find Back to top Dave in Sac Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 34 Posted: Jan 17, 2007 08:28 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yup, this is it in plain english. This pretty much sums it all up. Where's that little boy that's been defending them in this thread now? I'm sure there's too many big words in this article for him anyway. Dave in Sac. Back to top shrpshter Moderator Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152 Posted: Jan 17, 2007 11:50 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Where's that little boy that's been defending them in this thread now? Oddly enough, he is the one who posted the above lawsuit extracts. Jerry is not going to be happy. I happen to find the unposted lawsuit extracts of each individuals complaints even more interesting. I will refrain from posting them here, but one can find the complete lawsuit complaints in SSH's wikipedia article. Back to top Advertisement Posted: Jan 29, 2007 12:55 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First The Silver State Truth Forum Index -> Negative All times are GMT - 7 Hours Page 1 of 1 Quick Reply: Username: Jump to: Select a forum Your Thoughts On Silver State Helicopter----------------ANONYMOUS POSTING PROBLEMS FIXED!!!!!READ THISAdmin's Comments To Forum UsersNegativePositiveJerry Threatens Lawsuit Against Vertical ReferenceUpcoming SSH Seminars You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group Forum hosted by RSS feed | Forum directory | Set up a free forum! Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:19:42 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#9e7ae5e1-c0fa-40bd-b600-5e97434c35cd jane 2008-01-03T01:19:42Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#66d71db7-9b87-4874-9b44-e61c038eda7a This site was such a welcome thing to stumble across. like alot of other people my husband got sucked in by the SSH baloney. Now he wants out and we are looking to find a lawyer to represent a class action law suit. 70K is a whole lotta money for promises that havent panned out were now looking at 15 months in and no private lic and a crappy flight availability for those that have jobs.. I cant tell you how sick it makes me that they sell people on empty promises and dont fulfill them Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:42:13 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#66d71db7-9b87-4874-9b44-e61c038eda7a ana 2008-01-02T03:42:13Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#2b26bc29-973d-449d-b3c1-80fed5045387 I'm at a Cal. location. I've yet to hear what's going on at any location, even my own. I went to school the other day and it was a ghost town. Other students that I've talked to on the phone haven't really known what to do either. I'm assuming they are getting legal advice. If you don't sign the contract your a permenant ground student. If you sign it, your a student that's able to fly for a very short time. I've got a really bad feeling that I'm going to going to go to class one day and find a sign on the door saying "FOR LEASE" Tue, 04 Dec 2007 03:35:34 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#2b26bc29-973d-449d-b3c1-80fed5045387 Chris 2007-12-04T03:35:34Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#555fb82f-abda-459c-937b-2f6ad54ece77 What location are you at? Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:48:31 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#555fb82f-abda-459c-937b-2f6ad54ece77 Dave 2007-12-03T21:48:31Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#67098667-3043-4a6d-b6ca-afe3b6aa86a3 Same stuff going on at my location. Only a handfull of people have signed the new contract. Nobody has finished in 18 months, nobody has had the oppurtunity either. I haven't signed the contract yet, and I know the second I do, I'm doomed never to finish. Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:09:29 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#67098667-3043-4a6d-b6ca-afe3b6aa86a3 Chris 2007-12-02T22:09:29Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#7b63e475-a0ed-4be1-9f94-63e335399401 Dave, What Now Jerry, I am also attending a SS school in Texas and have had enough of their bullshit. Starting about a year ago I have had nothing but problems with the organization. After only two sessions in the SIM and over a month after starting the program I had my first flight. My 18 months just became 17 months. Come to find out why had I so few sessions in the SIM was so they could free it up for their upcoming instrument class. So I had to learn the basic, basic stuff while burning hours. Which I did. Straight and level, hovering, turns and all that stuff. For the next two months I was only on the schedule flying once a week. When I inquired about that, I was basically told that I should be happy because there were plenty of students not flying yet. Three months into program I had been "lucky" enough to log approx. 9 hours. Now I have 15 months to get through the whole program. From that point until now I have been slotted on the schedule twice a week. Had a summer with a lot of bad weather, where I was lucky to fly once every two weeks. I'm not saying I am the best pilot or anything like that. I struggled some I admit. I am also on my fourth instructor. Some mediocre, some great, and some real boneheads. I passed all the ground tests came to class every week and did not cancel flights. I am at where I am now. Well over My 10 months and hopefully going to get my private before the year is up. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, once until I received my letter in the mail stating that I was coming close to the end of my contract and that SS hoped my schooling was going good and would help me get through did SS say "you are not flying enough. You need to fly more to get done on time. And this is what we have done to rectify the scheduling problems." I guess cause they are getting pressure from corporate or something now everybody is running around telling everyone they have to fly more or else. I had my meeting and had to plead my case, but it was all for nothing because right after that they tried to offer a way "through this" . They tried to pass off this offer of skipping my instrument training some $17,500 so I could get finished on time. I couldn't believe it. They were trying to screw me out of even more money. That's when I told the station manager I had an even bigger issue. Before I signed any contract I asked in the initial interview " I have a Montgomery G.I. Bill form the military. Will I be able to use it?" RESPONSE "Yes you will be able to use it." Now my contract is almost up. No where near finishing. No 141 certification in sight. No, "yes we understand we did not provide the adequate tools for you to finish in time so we will extend your contract." Nothing. Just me about to be holding a bill for $69,000 + interest. I told the station manager what I wanted to happen. What I thought was right to happen. Based on all of this I just want to pay a fair market value for what I owe and be able to pursue my dream at another institution that really in business to train pilots, not just STEAL money from them. One week later and NO response. I guess that's what happens when they have all the money already. I'm on board with any group of students forming a lawsuit. So contact me or post more info on what is going on please. One more thing I heard some shitty news from a former Air Log employee. They are not hiring any more SS pilots and the ones they recently have hired are getting fucked with. Have no hard evidence just what I was told, but if true what does that tell you about SS. 1. They LIE to students 2. They LIE to VETERANS 3. Their training might be SUBPAR Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:39:26 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#7b63e475-a0ed-4be1-9f94-63e335399401 BOB 2007-11-22T01:39:26Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#152c6c5f-5f28-4210-b8ac-077ebf6f1af8 We are not going away just getting organized !! Hopefully it will not be a long drawn out process so I continue training, somewhere else and be finished before I get my aarp card. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:56:39 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#152c6c5f-5f28-4210-b8ac-077ebf6f1af8 Dave 2007-11-07T21:56:39Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#f359050a-b913-4bc0-a71f-4d83061cbbac Well I live in Texas and I'm interested in joining a Class Action Lawsuit so count me in and someone post some more details about that! I started the program with great enthusiasm but over the last year it's been slowly squelched by a string of broken promises...I've missed no less than 12 flights in the last 12 months that were due solely to SSH's inability to provide A/C and/or Instructor(s) for a scheduled flight. Another thing that's put a damper on my learning was a near death Low RPM experience and subsequent overcorrection brought on by 1 particularly nubby instructor I had (I'm up to 7 or 8 instructors now). He attempted to demonstrate a simulated engine failure at 225 hours TT...I believe that's a maneuver he shouldn't have been demonstrating to me until he had at least 250 hrs TT. The Chief CFI didn't want to hear what happened from me so it was white washed but I know what I saw and I'm not sure why but when he rolled the throttle off he didn't lower the collective quickly, nor did he lower it all the way...the RPM's went down to 83% in about 1 second and then he said "F*CK!" and slammed the collective down the rest of the way and pulled hard aft on the cyclic...this over-correction ended up causing the needle to "peg" for at least 2-3 seconds (at 115%+, well above 110% red-line)...finally he regained control of the RPM's and we landed at the nearest runway about 2 miles away (he might have tried to cover it up completely but the controls felt mushy to both of us, he told me later he was thinking of landing in the field we were over). I called my wife and told her to be ready to drive 45 min's to pick me up and then prayed to God that he would send me a sign if it was ok to get back in that Heli...well, there was a Helicopter Mechanic that happened to be at this little private runway, he wasn't working but he offered to check out the Rotor System for us and said it didn't look like anything was "loose or missing" (this was a clear answer to my prayer)...I decided to get back in and we flew back...I'm told they took the blades off and checked the bearings, but thankfully I've never flown in that A/C again. Anyway, I'm not saying I want to give up my dream but I also don't want to train with or work for SSH so it's a catch 22. I wouldn't mind leaving the program entirely if we could reach an equitable outcome. My situation is that I'm at less than 25% of the 200 Hrs included with the ground instruction for $70K...I'd be willing to accept a pro-rated refund based on the # of hours I'm flown. SSH can eat the ground instruction for lying to me over and over... At the very least I'd like to see/force SSH to remove their unreasonable 18-24 month requirement for students to complete the program. I've only talked to a few CFI's that have finished in under 18 months and they were not working full time when they accomplished this miracle. Most of the CFI's I know finished in greater than 24 months (1 guy took 3 full years) and they were not charged anything extra and got the FULL benefit of what they paid for. Now SSH decides to start charging or cutting out certain parts of training? I don't think so! When you look and see that over half the CFI's take every Sunday off anyone can tell that they are not set up to fulfill Private/Commercial/Instrument/CFI training for "working class" adults in under 18 months...the ratio of Helicopters to students is laughable too since at least 20% of the ships we have are down every week (usually on weekends when students need to fly) for some sort of maintenance. I've got my own lawyers looking into this but I would for sure be willing to attest to these atrocities (I have dates, times, emails and some recorded conversations). Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:59:23 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#f359050a-b913-4bc0-a71f-4d83061cbbac WhatNowJerry 2007-11-06T20:59:23Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1fb6a571-98c3-4110-85e8-74f5e6a9b509 2 years and no private!!! Wow, I can't think of anything that suck more than that. I wish I had more advice to give you other than don't give up the fight to either get what you paid for or get back what you didn't pay for. I think Jerry makes it very hard to get your money back and he's counting on you to just disappear. Keep up the fight. Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:38:02 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1fb6a571-98c3-4110-85e8-74f5e6a9b509 Elvis 2007-11-01T07:38:02Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#41401083-25c5-4ad0-a8ba-b53ac487a049 Thanks for the advice. They couldn't fullfill there part of the contracts (no helis, no cfi's) the same crap everywhere. Now they want us to sign another contract that shifts all the responsabilitys from SSH to us the student. They have given us all a "hard date" to be finished by, and if we don't finish by that date then they are going to charge us more money to finish or just drop us from the school. Most of us been there for two years and still don't even have our private yet. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:55:46 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#41401083-25c5-4ad0-a8ba-b53ac487a049 Dave 2007-10-31T17:55:46Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1d0e5f94-8a59-48cc-84cb-bc48d043a6f2 this is very bad. there needs to be some media attention to this......call your tv stations to do stories what about the better buisness bureau their commercials need to be taken off the air. a friend of mine wrote the number down for me just the other day, thinking i would jump on it. SS has to stop ruining people's dreams. thanks to them, getting funding is more difficult. why wait for a class action, i say go for them right now.....class actions suits sometimes wind up screwing the plaintiffs and benefiting the lawyers so be careful Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:38:50 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1d0e5f94-8a59-48cc-84cb-bc48d043a6f2 kim 2007-10-31T06:38:50Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1ae69c84-0c20-4330-a280-5a93059112b0 We have the same SHIT going on in Texas. Anyone from Texas with simular stories, please share. Class Action is coming..... Any information or participants are welcome. Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:24:35 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#1ae69c84-0c20-4330-a280-5a93059112b0 Dave 2007-10-28T00:24:35Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#0ad76f96-1180-40da-9b4d-e331de0dce35 Well in our SS school many of us are working people and we were told form the git-go "This is a working person school, and if you have the time we will have the helicopters here for you" we signed a contract for 24 months.having lost my jobs in the initial phase i didn't fly as much as I would have liked to but it was either fly of lose my house. I did continue with the ground school and all. Most here are in various stages of their training and now we've been told that once our 24 months are up, we will have to drop everything and walk away. SS took 3 lump sums of our money up front and they are telling us that were going to just have to stop and leave? I paid an extra $5,000 for 5 hrs of jet transition and long line that too will be gone. Now, you tell me is that fair? my work schedule alternates every week. and when I try for find a slot to fly it's all taken up. I have to resort to jumping in the sim just to not lose my touch. I am pursuing my private right now but it's hard with work.but I am determine. I have resorted to bringing my flight bag every day to work with me in case someone cancel my instructor could call me. I know he will . He is very proactive about it. but with a lack of or down equipment coupled with the fact that there are no slots, it's a no win situation. I and many of my classmates are facing the same predicament we will soon be suspended because our contract ended and even when our own instructors took more than the contract allowed. SS is going to get rid of us and run with our hard earned money much of it has been out of our control. What are student going to do? I don't like class actions because the lawyers take it all and we end up with nothing more than a token amount. This is not fair ! I had high hopes and I have left my wife down which hurts me the most. . $65,000 down the drain and having to pay for it all too. Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:29:28 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#0ad76f96-1180-40da-9b4d-e331de0dce35 Tamako 2007-10-20T06:29:28Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#3fc8f868-392b-45a8-a792-c810de976692 I heard someone saw that some students were going to file a class action suit but I don't know if it ever happened or what. I don't know what to tell you Lee. I'm not sure how it's going to play out for you in this situation. Your probably going to have to follow the chain and start by talking to SS first, then the loan company if you don't get anywhere. Either way, I'm sorry for your troubles and in the end I have a feeling your going to lose. Whether you lose big or lose small (and I hope it's small) will be decided on how much persistance you have and how much shit you stir up. In my opinion the biggest leverage you can use, should it come down to a real fight, is to get AES to to see how bad they are and threaten to drop SS from their accreditation. Threatening to campaign AES to drop SS could be one tool in getting SS to play ball. Jerry doen't like have his buisness feathers ruffled and if you do he will solve his problems by throwing money at it. This really suck dude. But if you want to do others a favor, Keep us informed about how it plays out. There are 2 kinds of people, the ones it has happened to and the ones it will. You'd be helping others if we knew what you did and how it went. On another note, flying helicopters can still happen for you if your not soured by this. You got one loan and can get another and go to a school that will make it happen for you. Flight school doesn't take up all day so you can still work if you have to. I did. Good luck and I'm always here for you all. Sun, 14 Oct 2007 03:23:56 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#3fc8f868-392b-45a8-a792-c810de976692 Elvis 2007-10-14T03:23:56Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#c887808a-2d73-4933-96aa-a710b3050756 I'm another person who heard the ad on the radio, and went to the seminar. I was in a "need to better my career for my family" mode, and signed up. I got a student loan through AES. After a couple weeks of school, I needed to find work to keep paying the bills. When I found a job, what were the odds on another guy working at the same place, had gone through SS and quit after a year. He had asked me some questions that raised my eyebrow, told me to google SS complaints and lawsuits and read up. OH SHIT, is what went through my head. So, I decided to quit the school after 11 weeks. I had logged about 18 hours in the simulator, and never did any time in a real helicopter. The school loan has already kicked in two installments for $48,000. I am more than willing to pay for what I have used up to the 11 weeks, but nothing more than that. I'm hoping that the loan company and SS will play nice, but they want their money. Do I need to get a lawyer, or can I just make a few phone calls and clear this up? Any advice will be great. Mon, 08 Oct 2007 01:19:02 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#c887808a-2d73-4933-96aa-a710b3050756 LEE 2007-10-08T01:19:02Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#f42b68fd-dd4c-4171-8cf4-b9a567f40f0d I have a client in Washington who has similar complaints agaist Silver Stete. He now lives in California. He is looking to possibly join others in going after SS for breach of k, fraus, consumer protection act claims, etc. Please respond if you are aware of any lawsuits filed against SS. Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:58:26 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#f42b68fd-dd4c-4171-8cf4-b9a567f40f0d Brian 2007-07-10T19:58:26Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#ce73e89f-cebc-485b-b708-4f82b668e2c3 On March 28th a CFI was killed in a crash at Silver State. I don't know which location. I was told the CFI did a lot of sim flying but felt rusty in the R44 and felt over worked. It is a shame and my heart goes out to her friends and family. In regards to certain points in R's post, I'm glad you were able to achieve your goals through SSH. In all fairness SSH does have their share of successes, however is seems that over all they don't out weight their failures. I define a failure as not being able to give a customer what you promised and what they are paying for. I also don’t think the quality of their training is that good. As a flight school owner, that is what pisses me off, NOT because I feel they are a threat. I’ve taken considerable pride in being able make someone’s dream a reality. That is what I promised and that’s what they got. There seems to be too much bullshit to go through in order to get what you want out of SSH, and sadly many can’t find their way through it. R, I’m not saying that you’re not a good pilot. I’m also flying in the Gulf and you know (to put it simply) that if you suck your dead, but in my experience, I have seen SS pilots cause more shit in the air and at airports than anyone else. It’s not hard to pass a check ride. A CFI can get just about anyone through in one or two try’s. A DP doesn’t really get into or see bad habits in someone after one hour of flying with them. Granted, people do get better as the go. After 1000-2000 hours it’s safe to say that most people are on the same level (more or less). But it’s the first 1000 ours or so that are the most dangerous. If a CFI is not trained well it gets past to the student and then they’re both at a higher risk. Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:28:03 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#ce73e89f-cebc-485b-b708-4f82b668e2c3 Elvis 2007-04-01T22:28:03Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#68ef1c69-07c9-4675-8a27-77530a604b55 This post is not to defend or to agree what is being said or what is fact with SilverState Helicopters. I'm a ssh graduate, so i know first hand on how the operation works. SSh is a walmart of helicopters flight schools, For the most part everything they promise you can acheived, however it takes alot of commitment>> like i'm sure with other schools>>They do offer comercial work outside instructing , but you have to be a stand out guy kinda a rat! i dont agree with that, but what can you do? I am paying out the ass in my student loan payment and that i'm not so stoked about but when i was working at silverstate i was able to afford it.. I work for a awesome company out of the gulf now took like a 50 percent paycut ,but i have a life outside instructing lol and the sim...I finished right at 18 months could have finished faster if i would have quite my job earlier. I think the worst part that ssh petrays," is its for all people" Flying helicoptors is not for all people.... It should not be a career change because it sounds good. If you have a faimly>> u probally wont after if you want to finish the program. As far as the location i was going to school at and flying out of in chino ca they tried there best to work around students schedules, Hell for the most part the students made their own schedule and still would not show up so what can you do as a cfi>> well kick the student off that spot.. Now from the students stand point ur being inflexible, but what is the cfi suppost to do for money if students dont show up? I feel that as far as for check rides student are properly prepared i signed off 27 students ranging from private to com>> and instrument>>> and out of the 27 i had some fail . maybee cuz i missed something but i think every student would agree it was just something forgot or they choked>> it happens .people test not always at there best. Well to some it all up>> if your looking for a flight school its not a bad option i work with many other pilots that went to other schools they all have the same b$tches one way or another. I'm sure there are other flight schools that would work out better for some people i'm sure silverstate is just what someone needs>> Just leave your options open>> people wouldn't be upset if ssh was not a threat. bottom line is students would not be passing check rides if there are not ready for the pilot crts yanno its the same check ride regardless what school you came from....... Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:10:48 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#68ef1c69-07c9-4675-8a27-77530a604b55 R 2007-03-28T00:10:48Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#c55d6d08-4262-4c58-bddf-74beb8ba17fe Has anyone heard what happened to the "The Silver State Truth" site? I was following a thread there and now see all posts removed. Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:49:09 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#c55d6d08-4262-4c58-bddf-74beb8ba17fe Mary 2007-03-16T14:49:09Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#563f665e-5961-4670-a0ea-87014ee038f3 I was just exposed to the idea of becoming a helicopter pilot a little over a year and a half ago because of a friend hearing about Silver State's recruiting and asking me if it was something I had considered. Not having had much direction in my life to that point, I was very excited with the prospect. For the first time in my life I found something that I could picture myself doing every day and look forward to going to work. I turned in my application to them, and I wasn't able to qualify for the loan on my own (my FICA was like 5 points too low) and I didn't have anyone who could or would co-sign. So I sucked it up and just worked on getting my credit up. The following year (this year) I went to the seminar myself and applied super early and found out that once again, my FICA was just a few points too low. Now I know I'm in a position to qualify for individual financing, and I've already started independent research on helicopter flight. I can't begin to say how dedicated I am to this career path. However, reading this about SS has made me really concerned. SS seemed like such a good choice because they hire you on themselves and their self-imposed requirements were above average...which gave me the impression that they want their pilots to be beyond qualified. Great! I plan on getting as much advanced training as I can...and would eventually like to fly firefighting helicopters, and I know this requires rather advaced flight skills. I suppose my question is this...do these other schools offer jobs upon completion of the flight school? When an independent employer is looking at my qualifications for a job, are my logged flight hours the only consideration or do they look at my scores and such from the flight school? I would love to be able to go to a more reputable school where I know that I would get the level of education and training that would allow me to be the top-quality pilot that I know I can be, but I'm worried that I'd end up in a position where I have all the qualifications, but spend so much time working at another job trying to make the money so I can log enough hours for a company to consider me that I end up just treading water in the flight industry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Wed, 06 Dec 2006 06:14:26 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#563f665e-5961-4670-a0ea-87014ee038f3 Josh Skywise 2006-12-06T06:14:26Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#e2e8fdd2-c2d8-4aa3-9be6-d50cef9ca974 their radio commercials were enough repellent for me ;) Sun, 09 Jul 2006 01:02:28 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#e2e8fdd2-c2d8-4aa3-9be6-d50cef9ca974 kim 2006-07-09T01:02:28Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#11e52892-a283-4a73-bed4-554ebc0d5584 Hey Niall, Paul on MySpace is the jerk off I was referring to who claimes SSH has the right to use the law. I just read all the other posts, including the one from that chick who works for them in admin. Feel free to cut/paste what I wrote on MySpace. I'd like as many people to know the truth and nothing would satisfy me more than seeing a house of lies that tries to weazle out of their own missdoings go up in flames. I'd do it myself but I'm not really interested in joining another web community. It took several friends to drag me on to this one (though I was glad they did). I showed what I had posted to one of my coworkers who used to teach at SSH (for a VERY short time because he couldn't deal with how they did things, he said). The only problem he had with what I wrote was in one sentence there was a mistake in my grammer. Wow, I can't remember the last time I was this pissed off over something like this. Fuck it. Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:34:47 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#11e52892-a283-4a73-bed4-554ebc0d5584 Elvis 2006-07-07T09:34:47Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#ba796137-f3a2-48d6-bb22-f6590ead2e14 Disclaimer: “The following story is from the experiences and opinions of the writer and in no way reflects the experiences and opinions of Tribe.net or it’s advertisers” :-P Elvis rocks!!! I must say he practically saved my life. I went to a Silver State seminar and like a lot of people was impressed by Jerry’s sales pitch, never thinking before then that little ol’ me could become a helicopter pilot he filled my head with ideas of wonder. The next day I went in for an “aptitude test” and very quickly found myself signing papers committing to a $70,000 loan because if I didn’t sign then, all the classes would be full, so they said. I left both excited and a bit overwhelmed, it would be 4 weeks before the classes started, which was to be several months of ground school before I was to get any flight time in the single R22 they had for 70 students. So I started my research and quickly began to uncover some ugly information regarding the practices of said school. As you might have read in Elvis’s post I was encouraged to check out other schools including Hillsboro Aviation, and was I surprised, not only was just about every other school cheaper but offered more training and options of helicopters. So I told SS that I wouldn’t be attending their school and they seemed nice about it and told me thanks and good luck, this was still more than 2 weeks before classes were to start. So I ended up choosing Hillsboro and I’ll never be able to express my relief in doing so, fantastic rep. and safety record. I had qualified for the $70k loan through SS but I wanted to be as far away from them as I could so I went to my bank and applied, I had enough money to get me started at HAI (where I logged 1 hour of flight time on my first day) while I wait for my loan, I get a letter stating that I don’t qualify. ??? Well it turns out in my whirl wind paper signing I gave SS permission to activate my loan, so they did, even after they told me my loan would be nullified, and took their first dispersment of $20k, which is much more than what they told me it would be. So after a full day of phone calls to both SS and Student Loan Express I finally got someone at SS to find my file, he told me that they will be able to refund the money in full but it could take up to 6 months. ?????? I was told several times by several different people that that’s the best they could do. I was gonna have to start paying interest after 30 days. So after I had my lawyer (who’s a family friend) wrote a fantastically scary letter to SS, it only took them a week to refund it in full, complete with a letter of apology. So I got my loan for Hillsboro, I’ve got 33 hours logged, I make my own schedule, monthly BBQ’s at the airport, parties every weekend over at the student housing, fantastic people, I’m having the time of my life!! NO thanks to Silver State. I hope my story made sense, I still get pissed when I think of it, so I was typing angrily. Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:38:51 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#ba796137-f3a2-48d6-bb22-f6590ead2e14 Niall 2006-07-07T02:38:51Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#83adfc04-a664-4438-8f07-832ddd050151 My 2 cents--OK, I don't have any personal experience with Silver State (although I for one implicitly trust Elvis's assertations) but think of it this way: choosing a helicopter training school is a lot like choosing a college. If you applied to a college and your college advisor said, "Yes, of course, we're delighted to accept you, but we're gonna need your full tuition upfront. That'll be $55,000, please. Oh, and by the way, good luck getting a student loan, because we've had some trouble with the banks. And also, you should know that because we have 100,000 students currently enrolled on our campus, but only 20 classrooms, it's gonna be awhile before you get to attend that lecture you need in order to get your degree. In fact, now that you mention it, it'll probably take you about 8 years to get that BA, though we also recommend that our students get an additional Bachelor of Science degree immediately upon graduating in order to be employable...oh, and one last thing--we have one of the highest drop out/dissatisfaction rates, and most of our graduates get chewed out by their future employers due to their inadequate education." You'll be like, "no way, f*ck this college, what a waste of time, money, energy, etc...I'm going to SMC," or whatever, right? Prospective pilots should have the same criteria (or higher, since unlike with college, your very life is at stake) when choosing a flight school. Or you gonna get burned. Ouch. Peace out, A Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:12:03 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#83adfc04-a664-4438-8f07-832ddd050151 * A-Star * 2006-07-07T00:12:03Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#8d5d0d17-3093-4dcb-be3a-0892f9ef9e70 I know of Silver State mostly by their reputation in the helicopter world, and I have never heard anyone outside of their organization mention anything positive about it. They're reputation is that they take all the money up front, are extremely inflexible scheduling, rush people into their checkrides, and their pilots and student pilots tend to get chewed out by the tower controllers a lot. We hear it on the radios and talk about it amongst ourselves, so this is my personal experience. When I started my training last year, I contacted Silver State first because they were higher profile. I was advised to come in during the day on a workday, and that was the only day they could fit me in. I asked about weekend training because I have to keep my mid-level manager job while training because bills need to be paid. I was told that they didnt have anyone to train on weekends, and that they only had one helicopter part time in my area that was borrowed from the Paso Robles branch a couple times a week and I would have to share time with other students who were signing up responding to their radio commercials. Keybank refused my loan application initially saying they no longer provide loans to helicopter pilot students. When I asked why they changed the story and said that they don't provide loans to non-Title 9 schools or whatever, which was their way of being careful. I was able to talk them into giving it to me because of the reputation of my school, Helicopter Adventures, Inc. and had to do some convincing. The rumor from the start was that so many students got screwed when they wanted to quit that Keybank discontinued their program. So I had to go with a different lender at a much higher interest rate. I was told by a friend who's mother works at Keybank of a 50 year old lady who signed over her house to Silver State for training, either directly or as loan collateral, but she had no aptitude for it and wanted to quit. They would not let her out of her agreement and ultimately she lost her house. This is all rumor and hearsay, but the reputation is consistent. All of the "Incident" reports and "accident" reports are public records so anyone can look on the ntsb website and find out how many SS Robinsons crashed in a given year unless the owner-operator is not listed. I think that my school is a bit more costly than SS in the short run, and uses Schweizers instead of Robinsons which cost more to operate. But I believe in my school's consistent standards which the FAA Examiners use as acceptable skill and knowledge levels for checkrides in the area of the school. My school also has a pay as you go policy and does not require any money up front and does not have any penalty for withdrawing. Not a dime. The best thing for people choosing helicopter schools is to examine cost and safety but also reputation. What do other pilots think of the school's pilots? An organization has to really screw up to get a widespread bad reputation, and those are just from things that leak out into the public. What about the things that people don't hear about? Any and all opinions welcome. Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:12:14 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#8d5d0d17-3093-4dcb-be3a-0892f9ef9e70 Mark G 2006-07-06T23:12:14Z http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#e306a1ad-69c9-4d73-8090-72ab7aeb39ed You know nothing gives me the red ass more than someone who tries to use/abuse the legal system to cover up their own bullshit and incompetents. Niall's last subject posted this: I'm quoting this from the Myspace heli group.---- groups.myspace.com/helicopterpilots " The owner of a Nevada based 'flight academy' has threatened a popular helicopter community forum with legal action, prompting the owner of the forum to delete various forum threads dealing with his company's financial practices and quality of instruction. If you are against people threatening to sue, so that they can quash the voices of dissent, please inform everyone you know in the helicopter community that Jerry Airola of Silver State Helicopters has threatened legal action against Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums unless VR ceases allowing posts of derogatory views/opinions on their site. -Richard August " It's true, I went and could find NO mention of Silver State anywhere. F.S.S.H. When I clicked over to the myspace posting on this, some jerk off said that SS has the right to use the law. In this case, what he is referring to is slander. To publicly say something negative that is NOT true is called slander and I agree that it is something that should bear legal recourse. But, if your publicly saying something negative that IS true then it is not slander and that person should suffer for being an asshole and screwing people over. So I'm gonna create a post in big friendly letters here for anyone to add their thoughts, experiences, dealings, training or anything else. If you write something that is just your opinion, say it's your opinion. If you write something that is a fact from an actual experience then say it's from an actual experience. As long as what we say, we say is either our opinion or a factual experience, then he has no legal recourse to do jack shit. So I’m going to exercise my first amendment rights on this forum and cast the first stone. It is my opinion that Silver State business practices are unethical, immoral and does not serve the best interest of our community or the consumer at large. And this is why. The following was a letter I wrote to Niall who mentioned he was signed up to go to Silver State. He told me a little about what he heard and offered him my experiences and opinions based on things people told me, things I heard and things that actually happened. Soon after he withdrew and started with Hillsboro and I think he’s been happy there. A big part of my job at Rotor aside from teaching is answering phone calls and responding to inquires via email about training, how you should go about it, what it should cost and how long it should take. I have received many calls from people training at Silver State. I have attended their "free employment seminar". They opened up an office in Long Beach and I have witnessed and delt with their pilots and CFI's in the air and over the radio. I have also read every NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) accident report involving R22’s R44’s and Schweizers over 2003, 2004, 2005. I wish big egos were the only negative thing about them. I want you to know that in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM am I trying to sell you anything! You live in Oregon, I would recommend you go to Hillsboro before anywhere else. They’re in your state, have a good reputation and I have never heard anything negative about them. Our prices are fairly average for around here. In SoCal, you get a difference of +/- $10 an hour, some places more. Nationwide they are below average, mainly because of our weather. In other parts of the country the weather is not as consistent, therefore those schools cannot fly as many days a month as we can, therefore their prices have to be higher so they can stay in business. With us and most others, to get your ppl, instrument, cpl, CFI, CFII, R44 transition, and 27 hours in a Jetranger with a transition, it’s will cost about $47K and if you were to go for it, more or less full time, it would take you about 10 months and then you could be teaching. I’m not exactly sure what they are advertising, I thought it was around $55k or so. SS used to have financing with Key Bank. When you signed up and you were approved, you were also approved for a loan from Key Bank. Key Bank no longer gives loans for SS. I think too many people were unhappy with SS and quit, demanding their money back so Key Banks dropped them and ruined it for everyone else because Key Bank will no longer give helicopter training loans to anyone period. I also thought that if you did want to quit SS, you will get your loan money back but they get to keep $5000. I’m pretty sure that SS contract says that they can take up to 2 years to give you your CFI. In the last 2 years I’ve gotten several phone calls from people already enrolled in SS program. All have had major complaints. One guy actually came over and had a flight with us. He said “I can’t believe I’ve been in a flight school for 4 months and I have to go to another flight school to actually fly in a helicopter.” Another guy told me he was unhappy because “there are 100 students here and only 2 helicopters so getting air time is a real bitch so I don’t get to fly very often.” Someone else told me that he and some other students were considering filing a class action suit against them. My business partner and I went to their seminar last fall. The place was filled with average Joe’s hoping for a better life, being gloriously deluded and signing up in droves. First of all, there is nothing practical about going through the entire ground school and taking all the written tests before you fly, which by the way won’t be until around 6 months after you start attending classes. Nothing could be more reinforcing than reading about something, then going out right after and experiencing it in real life. They said that you could only do 2 sessions a week. Why? If you have the money and the time, you should be able to train as often as YOU like/can. Consistency and frequency are the best, cheapest, fastest and most effective way to get through your training. The seminar also mentioned that after you do get your CFI, they will not hire you until you have a 2 year associate’s degree in Aviation Sciences. I can tell you right now that I have never met a pilot with such a degree. I have never heard of any company besides SS hiring a pilot requiring that they have such a degree. Far be it for me to tell anyone that additional knowledge is a bad thing. When asked if the individual could get the degree while they were training with SS the answer was that they discourage that for reasons that I could quite understand. It is mine and other’s belief and opinion that SS is trying to “put off” their students as long as they can, which fit’s into their business model. They get 100 students to sign up at once all paying up front. With that money they buy the heli’s outright so they have no bank or lease payments. They can’t buy enough for everyone to fly when they want so they only let you train once or twice a week, which is a lousy way to go about it. After you and all the other people get their CFI they now have 100 students and 100 CFI’s with not enough work to go around so they tell you to get an irrelevant degree so that the last batch of CFI’s starts to work. In the end, they have eventually fulfilled their contract and have collected their money. It is also the opinion of myself and others that it’s not “if” this business if going to collapse but “when”. As far as their pilots go, I think they are hacks. I giggle every time I hear the control tower bitch their pilots out for constantly doing the wrong thing. Airports have letters of agreements with helicopters operators as to specifically what procedures we will use getting in or out of the airport and I have found myself on a head on collision course with SS pilots because they were not following the rules. The tower has also called my office to ask if this heli was one of mine, which happened to be SS. When the tower calls you looking for the operator of an aircraft, it’s almost always cause someone fucked up. In the last month I read all the accidents from the NTSB for R22’s, R44’s and Schweizers for a project I am working on. I have since mandated it that all my CFI’s read at least a years worth because even at my time (which is not so huge) I found that to be the best learning experience as a CFI that I’ve had in years. Most of the accidents were stated to have been caused by the CFI failure to correct something in time. In 2005 SS had 5 or 6 accidents that I am aware of because SS was named as the operator of the aircraft in the accident report. Not all accident reports list who the company operating was so there could have been more. At the seminar he brought up that issue from the start blamed it mostly of the high density altitude in Nevada, which is in fact an issue, to a degree. Density altitude was not an issue when their pilot was ferrying an R44 back to Nevada and didn’t want to wait for the weather to improve. He crashed in the desert and was killed. Ok, I may have freaked you out by now. Or maybe you might think I’m just another SS hater who’s full of shit. Either way, I hope I’ve at least given you some questions to ask that you may not have thought to ask before. Don’t think for a minute that you are totally committed and have no choice any more. They may still have a fee for quitting. It may be a hard decision to eat that fee. Weigh it against the cheaper cost of another school and years of your time and frustration. Don’t forget that your time is worth something, not just theirs. If you want to discuss anything I’ve said here, great. If you ask SS some questions, I’d love to know what answer they give you. If I’m gonna trash something I would like to at least be accurate and fair. So there are my thoughts on Silver State. We all gotta cover each others back. Feel free to comment on what I’ve said or add your own thoughts. This is America and we can say whatever we want as long as we are not being reckless, irresponsible or untruthful. And to Silver State, about this post, COME AND GET ME MOTHER FUCKER!!!! Thu, 06 Jul 2006 18:50:21 GMT http://helicopters.tribe.net/thread/cced7651-104e-4f69-a48b-94ed603c032e#e306a1ad-69c9-4d73-8090-72ab7aeb39ed Elvis 2006-07-06T18:50:21Z